Discussion:
[Gramps-users] Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 released
Josip
2017-06-10 19:51:41 UTC
Permalink
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental pre-release.

You can get Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 from the GitHub page.
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases

Think on backup before upgrade!

Thank you all!
Paul Franklin
2017-06-10 22:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josip
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental pre-release.
Think on backup before upgrade!
The key word is "experimental"!

It might be unwise to "upgrade" your main/real gramps
family tree into 5.0.0-alpha2. In general, we recommend
you make a copy of your family tree instead (typically by
doing a "gramps XML" export), then try 5.0.0-alpha2 on
the copy. (You can keep things really separate by using
the GRAMPSHOME environmental variable, if you want.)

It's been about a year since 5.0.0-alpha1 was released
so we are interested in your feedback, especially if you
discover any bugs or problems which we haven't noticed.

https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Using_the_bug_tracker

Please file a bug report (selecting the "5.0.0-alpha2"
version) if you find one. We want testers for alpha2,
but only if you are sophisticated and resilient enough
to know how to keep it away from your real data.

Once the Windows and Debian and Mac bundles are
released, of course. 8-)
Peter Merchant
2017-07-04 09:14:58 UTC
Permalink
I have replaced my version 4 gramps with 5-Alpha2 on my Zorin 10 laptop.
The two trees that already were there updated well, and I imported
another few successfully.

Now trying to figure out how to add graphview to it as that is my
main/usual way of working.

Thanks to all the developers.

Peter M
Post by Paul Franklin
Post by Josip
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental pre-release.
Think on backup before upgrade!
The key word is "experimental"!
It might be unwise to "upgrade" your main/real gramps
family tree into 5.0.0-alpha2. In general, we recommend
you make a copy of your family tree instead (typically by
doing a "gramps XML" export), then try 5.0.0-alpha2 on
the copy. (You can keep things really separate by using
the GRAMPSHOME environmental variable, if you want.)
It's been about a year since 5.0.0-alpha1 was released
so we are interested in your feedback, especially if you
discover any bugs or problems which we haven't noticed.
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Using_the_bug_tracker
Please file a bug report (selecting the "5.0.0-alpha2"
version) if you find one. We want testers for alpha2,
but only if you are sophisticated and resilient enough
to know how to keep it away from your real data.
Paul Franklin
2017-07-04 16:29:04 UTC
Permalink
I have replaced my version 4 gramps with 5-Alpha2 ...
It's up to you what you do, but we do not advise this.

The 5.0.0-alpha2 release is known to have bugs.
Jim Bruce
2017-07-04 16:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Can we run 5.0.0-alpha2 beside 4.2.5?

Jim
Post by Paul Franklin
I have replaced my version 4 gramps with 5-Alpha2 ...
It's up to you what you do, but we do not advise this.
The 5.0.0-alpha2 release is known to have bugs.
------------------------------------------------------------
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Peter Merchant
2017-07-04 17:47:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Franklin
I have replaced my version 4 gramps with 5-Alpha2 ...
It's up to you what you do, but we do not advise this.
The 5.0.0-alpha2 release is known to have bugs.
.
I know, but it is a play computer, so it doesn't matter what happens. As
it happens v5 overwrote v4 and converted/upgraded the existing databases.

Maybe as the other user asks one can run both versions on the same
computer, but I wasn't given the option.

Peter M.
Paul Franklin
2017-07-04 18:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Merchant
I know, but it is a play computer, so it doesn't matter what happens.
If you had said that in your original message ("play computer"),
I would not have bothered to comment.
Paul Franklin
2017-07-04 18:56:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Merchant
Maybe as the other user asks one can run both versions on the same
computer, but I wasn't given the option.
I do not run gramps on a Mac or Windows (at least generally),
so this should not be thought of as authoritative, but I understand
that gramps users on a Mac or Windows can have multiple
versions of gramps simultaneously on their machines. I do
not know if the family trees (databases) are kept separate or
are merged/shared, but caution should be exercised so that a
"real" database is not touched by alpha2.

I do not run Debian linux either, or any of its variants (Ubuntu,
Mint, etc.), but in general any prepackaged linux program will
think it knows where it wants to be installed, and that will be
the same for different versions, typically. I believe that can be
overridden, but that should only be done by users who know
how to do it. Similarly, gramps can be run "from source" but
again that use is typically beyond the abilities of an ordinary
user and I don't plan to risk describing it.

"For technically advanced users who run multiple versions of
Gramps, setting a different $GRAMPSHOME is a way to avoid
interference between the different versions in the Gramps user
directory" is from:

https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_4.2_Wiki_Manual_-_Command_Line#GRAMPSHOME
Alan Pine
2017-07-05 01:17:12 UTC
Permalink
I use Linux on my notebook for my main work and have Gramps
4.<something> installed on Win7 running in VirtualBox. I use the
Windows version for playing around, and also for merging my multiple
trees into a single tree. With an extra screen it's easy to see what's
in both trees at the same time.


Haven't wanted to install the 5.0.0 Alpha version on either Linux or
Win7 at this stage but someone may want to give it a try and see how
they get on.


Alan
Post by Paul Franklin
Post by Peter Merchant
Maybe as the other user asks one can run both versions on the same
computer, but I wasn't given the option.
I do not run gramps on a Mac or Windows (at least generally),
so this should not be thought of as authoritative, but I understand
that gramps users on a Mac or Windows can have multiple
versions of gramps simultaneously on their machines. I do
not know if the family trees (databases) are kept separate or
are merged/shared, but caution should be exercised so that a
"real" database is not touched by alpha2.
I do not run Debian linux either, or any of its variants (Ubuntu,
Mint, etc.), but in general any prepackaged linux program will
think it knows where it wants to be installed, and that will be
the same for different versions, typically. I believe that can be
overridden, but that should only be done by users who know
how to do it. Similarly, gramps can be run "from source" but
again that use is typically beyond the abilities of an ordinary
user and I don't plan to risk describing it.
"For technically advanced users who run multiple versions of
Gramps, setting a different $GRAMPSHOME is a way to avoid
interference between the different versions in the Gramps user
https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_4.2_Wiki_Manual_-_Command_Line#GRAMPSHOME
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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https://gramps-project.org
Fredrik
2017-06-10 22:17:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josip
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental pre-release.
You can get Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 from the GitHub page.
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
I went ahead and got the latest, downloaded, unpacked and did:

% python setup.py build
% sudo python setup.py install

And then the installer stopped and showed me this: Gramps requires
Python 3.2 or later.

My python is 3.5.3, as shown here:
% python --version
Python 3.5.3

Im running this on Ubuntu 17.04.

Is this the usual PEBCAK or is something wrong with release?

--
Fredrik Lindseth
Josip
2017-06-10 22:53:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredrik
Post by Josip
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental pre-release.
You can get Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 from the GitHub page.
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
% python setup.py build
% sudo python setup.py install
And then the installer stopped and showed me this: Gramps requires
Python 3.2 or later.
% python --version
Python 3.5.3
Im running this on Ubuntu 17.04.
Is this the usual PEBCAK or is something wrong with release?
Can't you just use python3 in commands?
--
Josip
Stephen GEORGE
2017-06-10 23:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Fredrick,

On my Ubuntu 17.04 When I type python in a terminal window I get python
2.7.13, I need to type python3 to get python 3.5.3

I notice your command line, just specifies python, .. are you sure your
getting the correct version during the install process?

On my PC

python --version returns 2.7.13, .. so seems something is non-standard
on your Ubuntu install

Steve
Post by Fredrik
Post by Josip
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental pre-release.
You can get Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 from the GitHub page.
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
% python setup.py build
% sudo python setup.py install
And then the installer stopped and showed me this: Gramps
requires Python 3.2 or later.
% python --version
Python 3.5.3
Im running this on Ubuntu 17.04.
Is this the usual PEBCAK or is something wrong with release?
--
Fredrik Lindseth
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
Fredrik
2017-06-11 08:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen GEORGE
python --version returns 2.7.13, .. so seems something is
non-standard on your Ubuntu install
At one point I made an alias python=python3 to get rid of python2, but
it seems like this was not such a good idea here.

When I explicitly typed % sudo python3 setup.py install gramps 5.0.0
works like a charm :-)
Post by Stephen GEORGE
sys.version
'3.5.3 (default, Jan 19 2017, 14:11:04) \n[GCC 6.3.0 20170118]'
Post by Stephen GEORGE
sys.version_info
sys.version_info(major=3, minor=5, micro=3, releaselevel='final', serial=0)


--
Fredrik Lindseth
Josip
2017-06-11 15:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Are there binaries for alpha2. If so where can I find them
TIA
JohnA
Post by Josip
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental pre-release.
You can get Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 from the GitHub page.
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
Think on backup before upgrade!
Thank you all!
Windows version are now available at:
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
--
Josip
Thomas Guyot-Sionnest
2017-06-12 13:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josip
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental pre-release.
You can get Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 from the GitHub page.
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
Think on backup before upgrade!
Thank you all!
Nice... I plan on testing it with an external MariaDB (InnoDB)
database... Out of curiosity will it work fine with multiple users
connecting on the same database at the same time? I'm not too much
concerned about the possible issue of having two users try to change the
same object, which should fail if transactions are used. (From
experience the two most likely source of issues would be long-running
transactions and local caching of data... if data is read every time and
change are committed instantly then it should work fine...)

Are there any plans for Debian binaries (like in aplha1)? I can install
from sources, but using the packages is easier...

Also I'd need the MadiaDB* bindings in Windows... I remember someone
asked for the PostgreSQL ones on the archives, they had to be compiled
specifically for the Python interpreter used by Gramps. Considering that
5.0 supports external databases I think the bindings for supported
backends should be included.

*MySQL and MariaDB APIs are mostly 100% compatible, but I cannot seem to
connect using "browser-style" trusted SSL certs using the MySQL library
in Linux... I can preload the MariaDB library to make it work and the
next Debian release will be compiled against the MariaDB version... In
Windows I guess it should use whatever library is installed (MariaDB or
MySQL), is that assumption correct? I know I can connect with MariaDB
libraries but I haven't tested MySQL.

Regards,
--
Thomas
Paul Franklin
2017-06-12 18:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Guyot-Sionnest
Are there any plans for Debian binaries (like in aplha1)? I can install
from sources, but using the packages is easier...
It's coming. Please be patient. We are all volunteers.

"Rome wasn't built in a day."
Paul Franklin
2017-06-13 04:32:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Franklin
Post by Thomas Guyot-Sionnest
Are there any plans for Debian binaries (like in aplha1)? I can install
from sources, but using the packages is easier...
It's coming. Please be patient. We are all volunteers.
The Debian 5.0.0-alpha2 is now on
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
Serge Noiraud
2017-06-13 15:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Minor, I hope, problem Debian stretch, current version of
libosmgpsmap is 1.0.1
You normaly need : gir1.2-osmgpsmap-1.0
python-pyicu is 1.9.5-1
Both are installed.
Post by Paul Franklin
Post by Paul Franklin
Post by Thomas Guyot-Sionnest
Are there any plans for Debian binaries (like in aplha1)? I can install
from sources, but using the packages is easier...
It's coming. Please be patient. We are all volunteers.
The Debian 5.0.0-alpha2 is now on
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
Serge
Paul Franklin
2017-06-13 17:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Minor, I hope, problem Debian stretch, current version of
libosmgpsmap is 1.0.1
python-pyicu is 1.9.5-1
Both are installed.
I don't run Debian/Ubuntu/Mint/etc. so this is just a guess,
but perhaps you need python3-pyicu instead (if there is such
a package, that is).

But PyICU is optional and gramps will run without it (especially
in English). It helps with sorting non-English alphabets, IIRC.
Paul Culley
2017-06-13 12:59:16 UTC
Permalink
Out of curiosity will it work fine with multiple users connecting on the
same
database at the same time? I'm not too much
concerned about the possible issue of having two users try to change the
same object, which should fail if transactions are used. (From
experience the two most likely source of issues would be long-running
transactions and local caching of data... if data is read every time and
change are committed instantly then it should work fine...)
Don't get your hopes up. Gramps was written as a single user
application. While we have what we call 'transactions', they are NOT what
a db person considers a transaction. Instead they are a grouping of
related commits managed together by the application. They support
undo/redo and the only thing we guarantee is that the db is consistent
before and after the transaction. It may not be consistent in the middle
(consistent meaning that various references to other objects are correct).

In particular, I'm pretty sure that there is no 'locking' of the db during
the transaction, at any level. There was a long thread among the
developers a while back where potential mechanisms for that were discussed,
but as far as I know, nothing was coded.

So multiple users are certain to cause trouble if they ever work in the
same regions of the db. And there is a lot of 'local caching of data'
involved in the GUI and object editors. We depend on the editors to manage
the consistency, they DON'T 'read the data every time and commit
instantly', and if you look hard you can find cases where this is not
handled well between various GUI elements even now.

Fair warning...
Paul C.
Thomas Guyot-Sionnest
2017-06-20 15:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Out of curiosity will it work fine with multiple users connecting
on the same
database at the same time? I'm not too much
concerned about the possible issue of having two users try to change the
same object, which should fail if transactions are used. (From
experience the two most likely source of issues would be long-running
transactions and local caching of data... if data is read every time and
change are committed instantly then it should work fine...)
Don't get your hopes up. Gramps was written as a single user
application. While we have what we call 'transactions', they are NOT
what a db person considers a transaction. Instead they are a grouping
of related commits managed together by the application. They support
undo/redo and the only thing we guarantee is that the db is consistent
before and after the transaction. It may not be consistent in the
middle (consistent meaning that various references to other objects
are correct).
In particular, I'm pretty sure that there is no 'locking' of the db
during the transaction, at any level. There was a long thread among
the developers a while back where potential mechanisms for that were
discussed, but as far as I know, nothing was coded.
So multiple users are certain to cause trouble if they ever work in
the same regions of the db. And there is a lot of 'local caching of
data' involved in the GUI and object editors. We depend on the
editors to manage the consistency, they DON'T 'read the data every
time and commit instantly', and if you look hard you can find cases
where this is not handled well between various GUI elements even now.
Thanks, although what you describe is a pretty safe behavior with regard
to the DB. Additional safety may be provided by changing the default
transaction isolation level (I'm just reading about PostgreSQL now... it
appears the default is Read Comitted while MySQL's default is Repeatable
Read) - see https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/transaction-iso.html

If two transactions try to change the same rows one will be locked until
the other completes, and if a deadlock occurs (both tx waiting for each
others) one will be rolled back and the client will get an error. That
could happen, and in a perfect world gramps should check the the data
it's trying to change hasn't been modified by someone else and then
retry the transaction. I assume that will not be the case, but if each
edit is done as a single transaction then at the very least the possible
loss is limited to a single edit.

With the default isolation level of PostgreSQL I don't think this could
even happen unless two tx change the same rows in parallel (previously
read rows will not be taken into account), OTOH there will be no warning
if the same field gets changed consecutively by two users if one commits
before the other starts updating (the latter will blindly overwrite the
former).

The other issue can be caching. If Gramps doesn't read data from the
database every time then it is hard to see what others have done just
before you. In alpha-1 caching was not an issue, though you may have to
switch between objects to refresh data (there may be a need for a
refresh function...)

Oh, last but not least, I haven't yet checked if this was fixed in
alpha-2 (since MySQL support was dropped I need to setup PostgreSQL
instead...) but Gramps should attempt to reconnect if the connection
dies (if it happens during a transaction the tx should be assumed to
have been rolled back*)

(*) A configuration option in MySQL changed default setting a few years
back to rollback only the timeout statement, not full tx... In
PostgreSQL it appears it rolls back the the full tx which is the safe
behavior (based on user comments; I haven't yet found an explicit
statement about this in Postgres documentation). This is only for TCP
timeouts during a statement, not deadlocks/timeouts that leaves the
connection open. When in doubt the safe thing to do is to rollback and
try again.

Regards,
--
Thomas
josip
2017-06-12 15:20:23 UTC
Permalink
We drop mysql support.
Gramps-alpha2 works with SQLite3 or PostgreSQL.
Windows build of alpha2 contains everything needed for both.


Josip

-------- Original message --------
From: Thomas Guyot-Sionnest <***@aei.ca>
Date:
To: Josip <***@pisoj.com>,Gramps Development List <gramps-***@lists.sourceforge.net>,Gramps users <gramps-***@lists.sourceforge.net>,gramps-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 released
Post by Josip
The Gramps team releases version v5.0.0-alpha2, an experimental
pre-release.
You can get Gramps 5.0.0-alpha2 from the GitHub page.
https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/releases
Think on backup before upgrade!
Thank you all!
Nice... I plan on testing it with an external MariaDB (InnoDB)
database... Out of curiosity will it work fine with multiple users
connecting on the same database at the same time? I'm not too much
concerned about the possible issue of having two users try to change the
same object, which should fail if transactions are used. (From
experience the two most likely source of issues would be long-running
transactions and local caching of data... if data is read every time and
change are committed instantly then it should work fine...)

Are there any plans for Debian binaries (like in aplha1)? I can install
from sources, but using the packages is easier...

Also I'd need the MadiaDB* bindings in Windows... I remember someone
asked for the PostgreSQL ones on the archives, they had to be compiled
specifically for the Python interpreter used by Gramps. Considering that
5.0 supports external databases I think the bindings for supported
backends should be included.

*MySQL and MariaDB APIs are mostly 100% compatible, but I cannot seem to
connect using "browser-style" trusted SSL certs using the MySQL library
in Linux... I can preload the MariaDB library to make it work and the
next Debian release will be compiled against the MariaDB version... In
Windows I guess it should use whatever library is installed (MariaDB or
MySQL), is that assumption correct? I know I can connect with MariaDB
libraries but I haven't tested MySQL.

Regards,
--
Thomas
NdK
2017-06-13 16:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by josip
We drop mysql support.
Just temporarily or permanently?
Post by josip
Gramps-alpha2 works with SQLite3 or PostgreSQL.
I too preferred PostgreSQL, but MySQL is easier (and cheaper) to find on
shared hosting plans...

BYtE,
Diego
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