[Gramps-users] GRAMPS Places usage question - links

[John Bissett]

Nick:

Thanks for your reply.

On: 2017-06-22 4:49 PM you wrote:

| Put the date ranges on the links rather than the place names.
|
| Nick.

I could not find an object or a field called "link". I looked in the
GRAMPS documentation Wiki and in People, Places and Geography in GRAMPS .
Can you guide me to where the "link" and "link date" are found?

[Dave Scheipers]

Hi John,

In the Place Record, There is an "Enclosed By" tab (This is the links Nick
was suggesting. So a smaller place, the city, is "Enclosed by" a larger
location, the county. And the county will be "Enclosed By" the next entity
up; the state or province. And the state or province will be enclosed by
the next larger location..

The smaller location can be enclosed by more than one larger entity and
which "path" the generated place name takes will be determined by the dates
you set for the enclosed by location. I always sort the "Enclosed By" list
starting with the most recent which typically will have an "after <date."
And the others going back in tame using "from <date. to <date>. This helps
so a time period is not overlooked.

The use of the alternative names tab with attached dates is so you can have
that place reflect its changed name through time. A city may at one time
had one name, but has since changed its name. So the generated place name
will reflect these changes along with which county or state it was a part
of throughout its history.

The place name generator will go down the lists and will select the first
valid option based upon the date of the event. If there is no valid option
for the date of the event of the place name, the question mark (?) will be
displayed. If there is no valid option in the enclosed by list, the
generated place name will stop where it is.

I hope this helps, Dave

Post by John Bissett
Thanks for your reply.
| Put the date ranges on the links rather than the place names.
|
| Nick.
I could not find an object or a field called "link". I looked in the
GRAMPS documentation Wiki and in People, Places and Geography in GRAMPS .
Can you guide me to where the "link" and "link date" are found?
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[Nick Hall]

Even though dates were configured for the counties using the place
name editor there are no dates showing on the "Enclosed by" list. Is
there a "Link date" that I should be configuring? If so, how do I
configure it?

Edit the links in the "Enclosed By" tab, either by double-clicking on
them, or by selecting them and then clicking the "edit" (paper and
pencil) button.

Put the date ranges in the links rather than the place names.

Nick.

[Phylis Sophical]

Most interesting. I was wondering how to deal with town name changes.
A bit picky, but a question on how to record dates, example
Chatham, NB incorporated 1896 / Changed to 'Mirimachi, NB' in 1995
inserting date for Chatham, do I use 'date range' and insert 1896-1995 (or
1994?)
For Mirimachi, do I just use "Regular', put in 1995 with no end date?




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[Dave Scheipers]

Hi Phylis

In the Place Name editor put the place as 'Mirimachi with the date after
1994. This puts the starting date as 1 Jan 1995 unless you have the
specific date. Then I would put after <date> minus one day. Any time you
use after to select the time frame, it will actually exclude the date you
use. Something to keep in mind.

If you do not add the modifier to the date entry and only put 1995, only
event dates in 1995 would be valid. Any date after 1995 would cause the
Place Name generator to insert a question mark (?) in its place not knowing
what to do.

In the Alternate Places list add Chatham with the dates from 1896 to1995.
Think about that lower date. The 1896 is when it received an official
recognition. But what was it called before 1896 when maybe people lived
there but the place had no official recognition. So do not be afraid to put
an even earlier date. Or it could have been known by a third earlier name.
This can also be added using the same rules.

You also need to think about what will be placed in the place field for an
event with no date. You often know where someone is buried but not the
actual date. One way to enter it is "after the death date" Personally I do
not like this, But there are other life events you know occurred, just not
when to put a date on it. The Place Name Generator will treat it as the
earliest date possible. Or think of it as 1 January year 1. For this
reason, I will add the current place name again to the bottom of the list
with no dates attached; in effect becoming the default valid option. The
alternative is to use the date "before 1995" in the Chatham entry. But an
event with no date would select "Chatham" as the valid entry which you may
not want as the displayed name.

I hope this helped or at least gave you more to think about, Dave

Post by Phylis Sophical
Most interesting. I was wondering how to deal with town name changes.
A bit picky, but a question on how to record dates, example
Chatham, NB incorporated 1896 / Changed to 'Mirimachi, NB' in 1995
inserting date for Chatham, do I use 'date range' and insert 1896-1995 (or
1994?)
For Mirimachi, do I just use "Regular', put in 1995 with no end date?
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[Phylis Sophical]

Are you saying that I should not make a separate 'Places' entry for Chatham?
Just have it as an 'Alternate Name' under Miramichi?
I've experimented with entering Miramichi, when in fact the place should be
Chatham because the date is pre name change, but it only comes up as
Miramichi, it doesn't change to Chatham because the Miramichi name didn't
exist in 1934.
I think I'm missing a point here.

*Info so far:*
Chatham http://tinyurl.com/y9cbld5o
Founded 1800 (called The Spruce Tree)
incorporated, Mar 20, 1896
(In the 'Date', I've put 'from 1800 to Jan 11, 1995)

Miramichi http://tinyurl.com/ycwaeg29
Created Jan 11, 1995
(In the 'Date', I've put 'after Jan 10, 1995'




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[Dave Scheipers]

Hi Phylis,

First, the change of Name only happens with the Enable Automatic Place
Title Generation checked in the Preference/Places tab. With that enabled,
you select the Miramichi and Chatham should show once the event is set when
you finish editing the record.

But reading the two links you found, *Miramichi *as it exists today is not
a new name change for Chatham. Chatham was annexed along with other
communities into a single larger city, Miramichi .

So for Chatham, according to its website,
Place Name = Chatham with the date "after 1842" (unless you have specific
dates)
and Alternative Names
Miramichi with the date "from 1825 to 1843"
The Spruce Tree with the date "from 1820 to 1825"

I would also add as the last entry Chatham again with no dates set as the
default name for those events with no dates. With the list I suggest, an
event with no date would show ? without having this default option.

The new question is does Chatham exist today as a Neighborhood within the
new Miramichi and still referred to as such or did it just disappear?

With Miramichi as the new city incorporating the smaller neighborhood
former cities, I would have Miramichi as its own record enclosed by the
county record Northumberland. I would then edit the Chatham record (and all
the other annexed communities) and in their Enclosed By tab I would have
this new Miramichi city record with the date field 'after Jan 10, 1995'.
As a second entry I would have the Northumberland county record with no
dates. So when you select Chatham with a dat before 1995 it would show
Chatham, Nothumberland.... After 1995 Chatham, Miramichi, Northumberland....

So the only decision you would need to make is for an after 1995, do you
select the neighborhood Chatham or the larger City Miramichi. Most official
documents would probably have Miramichi and that is all you would know. But
often you could know an event happened in Chatham while it was a part
of Miramichi.

There could also be an issue if you have specific addresses and how these
may be affected with these date option. I'll help suggest a way to handle
these once you get comfortable with what I posted above.

Good luck, Dave

Post by Phylis Sophical
Are you saying that I should not make a separate 'Places' entry for Chatham?
Just have it as an 'Alternate Name' under Miramichi?
I've experimented with entering Miramichi, when in fact the place should be
Chatham because the date is pre name change, but it only comes up as
Miramichi, it doesn't change to Chatham because the Miramichi name didn't
exist in 1934.
I think I'm missing a point here.
*Info so far:*
Chatham http://tinyurl.com/y9cbld5o
Founded 1800 (called The Spruce Tree)
incorporated, Mar 20, 1896
(In the 'Date', I've put 'from 1800 to Jan 11, 1995)
Miramichi http://tinyurl.com/ycwaeg29
Created Jan 11, 1995
(In the 'Date', I've put 'after Jan 10, 1995'
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[Phylis Sophical]

I had 'Enable automatic place Title Generation' turned off. Turning it on and
entering Miramichi for dates previous to 1995 changed it to Chatham.
However, having 'Enable' on, generates the whole string of 'Enclosed by' in
the person's profile as well as in reports.. ie: Town > Parish > County >
Province > Country That's why I turned it off.

Also, what would happen if I put all of the 10 towns that amalgamated into
Miramichi, as 'Alternative Names'? Would there not be a date conflict for
anything pre 1995?

FYI, all of these little communities are now known as Miramichi and no
longer use their original name.





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[Dave Scheipers]

Without the place title generator enabled, it is impossible to have the
place name change automatically based upon the event date. You would have
to create a static record for each location and manually set what you want
displayed. It's a trade off that only you can answer.

Most of my place records are set as static displays. It is only recently
that I have figured out how to set up the dynamic display option especially
how and what to display for events with no date. It's slow going converting
all my place records.

As to the other towns that were amalgamated into Miramichi, they would each
have their own record and set up similar to Chatham. After 1995 enclosed
under Miramichi and the county record as all other options (if this is in
fact true, These places would have their own histories that may differ.)

And I just remembered in the preferences where you enable the place title
generator, there are additional options to restrict what is displayed. The
default is the full place name. I have not enable these options but you
might what to explore them. This option may tie in to having those
location Types being used with no deviation to display correctly.

I hop this has helped clarify the options available. Dave

Post by Phylis Sophical
I had 'Enable automatic place Title Generation' turned off. Turning it on and
entering Miramichi for dates previous to 1995 changed it to Chatham.
However, having 'Enable' on, generates the whole string of 'Enclosed by' in
the person's profile as well as in reports.. ie: Town > Parish > County >
Province > Country That's why I turned it off.
Also, what would happen if I put all of the 10 towns that amalgamated into
Miramichi, as 'Alternative Names'? Would there not be a date conflict for
anything pre 1995?
FYI, all of these little communities are now known as Miramichi and no
longer use their original name.
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[Phylis Sophical]

I have played around with the three options under Preference > Places >
Restrict. The results are:
*Full place name:* generates 'Chatham NB, Chatham Parish, Northumberland
Co., New Brunswick, Canada'
*-> Hamlet/Village/Town/City*: generates 'Chatham NB'
*Hamlet/Village/Town/City->*: generates 'Chatham NB, Chatham Parish,
Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada'

So the first and third seem to be the same result. Note I have included in
the 'Name', the abbreviation for the Province / State. This is to make it
easier to Search for locations that have the same name, but are in different
states / province. example: Bristol, Connecticut & Bristol, Ontario.




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[Dave Scheipers]

Hi Phylis,

Understanding what is happening, the arrow shows what is included by
selecting the restrictive options.
Things leading to -> Hamlet/Village/Town/City; ie street addresses,
churches and cemeteries would be included.

The arrow going away would exclude the street address, churches and
cemeteries but take Hamlet/Village/Town/City to its conclusion.

Of course adding the NB to Chatham is your option. But when you use Find
when selecting for a place, the Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada
also shows in the title. And something you may not be aware of, when you
select for an existing place, the place list currently defaults to
automatically expanding. In future versions, the list will be collapsed.
Not sure how that may affect your decision to add the NB to Chatham.

The only other observation is the mixing of civil and ecclesiastical
entities. Personally, I do not add them. While the region may be
predominantly of the dominant, in this case catholic, religion, not
everything or person you find will be. Maybe have the parish record be the
link for affiliated churches and cemeteries, ie St. Michael's
Basilica, Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada while
Chatham, Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada

Just my 2 cents worth. The choice is of course yours. Just want you to
think about your options before adding too many records and then deciding
to do it another way.

Dave

Post by Phylis Sophical
I have played around with the three options under Preference > Places >
*Full place name:* generates 'Chatham NB, Chatham Parish, Northumberland
Co., New Brunswick, Canada'
*-> Hamlet/Village/Town/City*: generates 'Chatham NB'
*Hamlet/Village/Town/City->*: generates 'Chatham NB, Chatham Parish,
Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada'
So the first and third seem to be the same result. Note I have included in
the 'Name', the abbreviation for the Province / State. This is to make it
easier to Search for locations that have the same name, but are in different
states / province. example: Bristol, Connecticut & Bristol, Ontario.
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